tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post6932885751961795548..comments2024-03-22T08:16:45.553-06:00Comments on The Fischbowl: What Would Shakespeare Think?Karl Fischhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11121548023409279686noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-90976322391610595182007-03-18T01:54:00.000-06:002007-03-18T01:54:00.000-06:00A 14 year old girl in her English class, that she ...A 14 year old girl in her English class, that she is getting 92% in, gets into trouble because she is reading Animal Farm. Here she is at 15:<BR/>http://wanderingink.wordpress.com/2006/12/11/rethinking-the-political-spectrum/<BR/>And here she is blogging about creativity (or lack thereof):<BR/>http://wanderingink.wordpress.com/2007/01/18/selectively-permeable/<BR/>Dare I say she is a lifelong learner who will thrive despite her schooling ...if she can keep it from sucking the life out of her.<BR/>She is currently suffering from writer's block due to a daily dose of 6 hours of boredom! Should someone like this be handcuffed to a textbook?<BR/>http://wanderingink.wordpress.com/2007/03/12/canada-isnt-that-important/<BR/><BR/>Thank you for this post!David Trusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00519890493979141068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-55131639670137748642007-03-15T10:33:00.000-06:002007-03-15T10:33:00.000-06:00Cheryl - I completely understand what you are sayi...Cheryl - I completely understand what you are saying. In fact, in my experience, the English department was the best about being rigorous but not boring, and even a decade ago was pretty constructivist, especially in the honors track.Crosbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05717342288587946592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-1250084517481786502007-03-13T19:47:00.000-06:002007-03-13T19:47:00.000-06:00Undoubtedly. And I would hope in 2027 they would l...Undoubtedly. And I would hope in 2027 they would look back at 2017 and think they could improve on that. And in 2037 . . .<BR/><BR/>I would hope that all of us believe in something along the lines of continuous improvement, that we are always striving to get better at what we do. I just happen to think that we are at a particular moment in history where a fairly major "shift" is going to happen.Karl Fischhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11121548023409279686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-60358595370683297492007-03-13T19:19:00.000-06:002007-03-13T19:19:00.000-06:00Amanda (and all who might still be reading this bl...Amanda (and all who might still be reading this blog),<BR/><BR/>Karl is right, shift happens. It was happening when I was a student in the 60’s. It was happening when you were a student. And it’s happening now. Educators shift back and forth, back and forth. <BR/><BR/>A decade ago Arapahoe's teachers were reflecting the best practices that were fed to us by the educational specialists of the day. We were trying to recover from the public humiliation we received by exposees in Newsweek (“Why Johnny Can’t Read”) and the like. In the 1980’s and 90's, Arapahoe instituted what we believed was a more “rigorous” educational philosophy. We taught the “five paragraph essay,” for example, just as the educational gurus of the day directed us. We used elaborate study guides, machine scored multiple choice exams, and overhead projectors. Researchers and educational specialists assured us that these were the most beneficial practices, the best ways to educate our students. I am embarrassed by some of the practices I used then, but also I believe that we accomplished needed changes. After the 1970's, education needed more “rigor” and students needed to be challenged.<BR/><BR/>Right now, we are riding the new wave in education, but I promise you, in ten years, we’ll look back and believe that educators didn’t quite have it right in 2007.Cheryl Makovskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04692413352688965561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-28958155037200411322007-03-13T11:42:00.000-06:002007-03-13T11:42:00.000-06:00My oversight. Sorry. :)My oversight. Sorry. :)Crosbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05717342288587946592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-61109907242966343202007-03-13T10:22:00.000-06:002007-03-13T10:22:00.000-06:00Amanda - understood, and agreed.Oh, you probably j...Amanda - understood, and agreed.<BR/><BR/>Oh, you probably just forgot to mention how brilliant your trig/pre-calc teacher was when you were at AHS . . .Karl Fischhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11121548023409279686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-69025549490870373972007-03-13T10:11:00.000-06:002007-03-13T10:11:00.000-06:00Thanks for your responses, Kurt. I take all comme...Thanks for your responses, Kurt. I take all comments on the blog as constructive criticism of AHS, and it helps to hear from students. Keep up the good work!<BR/><BR/>Karl, I agree that many of the things I mentioned are outside the "core" requirements, and I meant to be careful to acknowlege that. I guess when I hear that students are "bored" in core classes I am comparing their AHS experiences to mine about a decade ago. Many of the teachers who taught here back then and are still here are MUCH less into direct instruction than they were a decade ago. I would say that the quality of their teaching has improved, and the new methods employed by those teachers as well as younger staff has made the quality of education here much better. When I hear about the interesting methods being used by many of the 21C teachers, I have to admit to feeling a bit envious of today's AHS students. If they think they're bored, they should've sat through some of the classes I sat through as a student at AHS. Again, I'm not saying that we're perfect by any means, or that we don't have a long way to go, but I do think that taking a view that encompasses more than 1 or 2 years, we will see that we are in much better shape today than we were in the past.Crosbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05717342288587946592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-61515228005559294032007-03-13T07:38:00.000-06:002007-03-13T07:38:00.000-06:00Interesting thoughts everybody.Amanda - while I ag...Interesting thoughts everybody.<BR/><BR/>Amanda - while I agree that students can and should pursue all those things you reference in your last paragraph, how does that help them in their "regular" classes? How can they "tailor" those classes to their "needs?" Those all seem like options to bypass "the system" to get the most out of their education. Perhaps by voicing their opinions here they are trying to be "proactive" in changing the system . . .Karl Fischhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11121548023409279686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-90434561301896751752007-03-12T22:43:00.000-06:002007-03-12T22:43:00.000-06:00Quote:"Regarding the comment about Mr. Fisch not b...Quote:<BR/>"Regarding the comment about Mr. Fisch not being in the classroom, Mr. Kleeman was not being disrespectful - he was just explaining why he didn't fully agree with Mr. Fisch's position on a particular topic."<BR/><BR/>Thanks for clearing this up Ms. Crosby. I knew I had taken this comment wrong when no one else had commented on it.<BR/><BR/>Quote: "it is so interesting (from the viewpoint of a social studies teacher, anyway) to hear Americans praise other systems - especially when the praise partially stems from the fact that students in other systems score higher on standardized tests"<BR/><BR/>We are kind of agreeing on this one. I voiced my opinion about this in regards to boring classes. I referenced the tests to show what you supported: that European and other countries educational systems do better in certain subjects because they get rid of the classes they feel are unnecessary. I was in no means praising the world education systems; I was simply saying that they do a better job in teaching specialization. Of course, as Ms. Crosby said, this is not always for the best.<BR/><BR/>Quote: "I guess that my last comment is really a question for those students who have commented negatively about classes at AHS. The impression that I have gotten from your statements is that we're giving you some pre-packaged education here." <BR/><BR/>I do not feel that way at all. The only reason my voice is on this blog is because I feel that Arapahoe is the most progressive school when it comes to thinking for the 21st Century. I only give my opinion to help those trying to change this school for the better.<BR/><BR/>Quote: "what have you done as a student to seek out an individualized education? Have you taken lots of electives, or just maximized your unscheduled hours each semester? Have you asked a teacher to work with you on an independent study? Have you gone to the post-grad center and researched colleges that follow an alternative path?"<BR/><BR/>While I probably should not answer this because I cannot speak for everyone, I feel this needs to be addressed. I have individualized my schedule by taking A.P. and Honors classes in the subjects that will help me in college with my major. I have been engineering my schedule for individualization since the summer before Freshmen year when I took a swimming course. While I have not pursued an independent study, I spend a decent amount of my off hours (or used to before physical therapy came into the picture) in teacher's offices. I would discuss politics and current events with my government teacher, and I would discuss 21st Century Learners and constructivism with my English teacher. The most individualized thing I have pursued has been utilizing a Supreme Court database that is not yet available at Arapahoe, but I can use because I spend time talking to Mr. Murphy. As for college, I applied to seven colleges. One of them in-state. Two in California. Two on the East Coast. One entrepreneurial school. Six private schools. I guess what I am saying is that I did a lot of research, about nine months worth. When it comes to college, I know a lot of students at Arapahoe who are taking their futures into their own hands. I know students who are taking a year of classes at one school and planning to transfer. I know students who are planning on going out of the country. I know students who are going to Bible colleges. While some students may just accept the larger in state colleges, I know a lot of kids who refuse to fall in line for college.<BR/><BR/>This is not complaining or blaming the school. This is examining what is currently taking place and trying to improve it.Kurt W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12970569408654857908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-74218359707558680462007-03-12T22:08:00.000-06:002007-03-12T22:08:00.000-06:00Regarding the comment about Mr. Fisch not being in...Regarding the comment about Mr. Fisch not being in the classroom, Mr. Kleeman was not being disrespectful - he was just explaining why he didn't fully agree with Mr. Fisch's position on a particular topic.<BR/><BR/>Regarding the American educational system versus other educational systems, it is so interesting (from the viewpoint of a social studies teacher, anyway) to hear Americans praise other systems - especially when the praise partially stems from the fact that students in other systems score higher on standardized tests. First of all, so what? I thought that most people in education didn't like standardized tests anyway! Secondly, my response would be: of course they score higher. In the United States, every student takes every test. In many other countries, students are tracked from the age of 8 or so and then tested only in the areas pertinent to their particular tracks. If you studied math and science every day from the age of 8 onward, you'd score better than you do right now, at least on the math and science tests. However, your knowledge of other subjects would be crude at best. This all goes back to my earlier point: the American educational system, for all of its faults, still provides a variety of learning experiences for students from all walks of life. I would be interested to know if educators in other parts of the world look at test results and say, "Well, our tracked kids certainly score better than American kids on certain tests, but at least American kids get to learn about lots of different subjects and get to choose their own professional paths." I suspect, in other words, that there are different problems with education everywhere. If there weren't, why wouldn't we just adopt someone else's "perfect sysyem?"<BR/><BR/>I guess that my last comment is really a question for those students who have commented negatively about classes at AHS. The impression that I have gotten from your statements is that we're giving you some pre-packaged education here. Yet, isn't AHS, with its variable schedule, set up to really allow you to tailor your high school education to your needs? To the extent that you have requirements, those are imposed on AHS from above. So, here's my question: what have you done as a student to seek out an individualized education? Have you taken lots of electives, or just maximized your unscheduled hours each semester? Have you asked a teacher to work with you on an independent study? Have you gone to the post-grad center and researched colleges that follow an alternative path? I'm not saying that we as teachers should be excused from doing our best to help you develop individually in each of our classrooms, but what I am saying is that I think sometimes students take the easy way out and blame "the school" when they could be proactive instead.Crosbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05717342288587946592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-11471691432640555752007-03-09T12:23:00.000-07:002007-03-09T12:23:00.000-07:00Stacey,I think - ultimately - only the learner can...Stacey,<BR/><BR/>I think - ultimately - only the learner can define and determine what's meaningful, interesting and relevant. I think that's an essential part of being human.<BR/><BR/>That's not to say that we - as teachers, adults, human beings with experience and background - can't have an effect on our students, can't influence them, can't guide and share our passions with them. We have a ton to offer but - in the end - if they don't perceive it to be meaningful, interesting and relevant - then it wasn't. It reminds me of the phrase, "I taught it, they just didn't learn it." I just don't think that's acceptable. (Note: I realize we can't control everything, the responsibility is ultimately on the learner, but to use "I taught it" as a way to dismiss any further thought and discussion isn't acceptable.)<BR/><BR/>As far as hindsight altering one's recollection - definitely. But I'm not clear on where you're going with that . . .Karl Fischhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11121548023409279686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-79577315989307531942007-03-09T11:18:00.000-07:002007-03-09T11:18:00.000-07:00This dialogue has certainly been one to note. The...This dialogue has certainly been one to note. The arguments and illustrations articulated by AHS students have been of particular interest. I ask:<BR/><BR/>1. How do you define the terms meaningful, interesting, and relevant?<BR/>2. Who determines such measures?<BR/>3. Does hindsight alter one’s recollection of experiences?S. Cornilshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12770423194831806868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-31372032153615569382007-03-08T22:07:00.000-07:002007-03-08T22:07:00.000-07:00Just some quick thoughts on a few of things Brett ...Just some quick thoughts on a few of things Brett said (although Kurt beat me to one).<BR/><BR/>Brett said, "when you're working with literally millions of students, you must generalize to find proficiency." Why? I don't think the assembly line model is the only way we can do this. I think we can do better.<BR/><BR/>Brett also said, "It would be impossible [for colleges] to evaluate every student individually." Why can't they? I believe they can - and many already do. I think we can do better.<BR/><BR/>He also said, "But there are subjects, like math, science, and some business classes that require hard, fast rules." I disagree. All three of those areas are in a constant state of flux - particulary science and business, but even math. While some of the basics of math may not change much, how math is applied is certainly not hard and fast. And I think that points to some of the things we need to improve on as a system, because we don't really have students do science, do math, or do business, so they too often think it's all about facts. Facts are necessary, but not sufficient, to understand and apply those areas.<BR/><BR/>Finally, he also said, "Boring classes are a fact of life". Why? I think we can do better.<BR/><BR/>I think the most telling part of this whole discussion might be the fact that a high school student believes that boring classes are a given. I completely and vehemently disagree. Please note that I'm not talking about making them "entertaining," but interesting, and meaningful and engaging and relevant. I believe we can - and must - do this.<BR/><BR/>It's not about "bad" or "mean" teachers, nothing in this post was about that. As I stated in the original post, the teachers we have at Arapahoe are some of the best you'll find anywhere - caring, thoughtful, committed. But I think we can - and must - do a better job of meeting our students' needs. If we don't, then why are we here?Karl Fischhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11121548023409279686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-40171057177819068122007-03-08T20:55:00.000-07:002007-03-08T20:55:00.000-07:00While I agree that it would be impossible to evalu...While I agree that it would be impossible to evaluate every single student, I still think that there are better ways that colleges can pick their perspective students. For instance, shouldn't colleges take a student's best piece of writing, not a general essay. This would help the admission's officers because they would not become bored with similar pieces of writing over and over; and students can show their true potential. Even better, an English teacher can help the student pick the piece of writing.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Quote: "But there are subjects, like math, science, and some business classes that require hard, fast rules." While this is true to an extent (I still cannot envision the math class of the future); already the rules are being rewritten. Mr. Hatak's Astronomy class only uses books as a last resort. In fact, I do most of the learning on my own in that class. Interestingly, Mr. Hatak has not tried to make the class more fun, simply a better class; and in turn, the class has become infinitely more fun. He has said so himself.<BR/><BR/>Quote: "Boring classes are a fact of life and perhaps time might be better spent in those classes finding something to learn, rather than giving up and complaining about how pointless school can be." <BR/><BR/>I definitely do not agree. Why do boring classes have to be a fact of life? Look at European schooling: Once children reach ages around 16 they choose a type of higher school that caters to their future. Whether it be vocational or otherwise, the students do not need to take a class that covers a subject that won't be beneficial in the future. While some of this may not persuade firm believers in our educational system, consider that European countries score higher than the U.S. on education tests.<BR/><BR/>http://kapio.kcc.hawaii.edu/upload/fullnews.php?id=52 <BR/><BR/>In reference to Brett's Ritalin comment, that was my point. I wasn't trying to imply that the teachers are at fault, I was just giving another dimension to think about.Kurt W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12970569408654857908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-22859917099572902812007-03-08T18:06:00.000-07:002007-03-08T18:06:00.000-07:00And the fact still stands that free thinkers have ...And the fact still stands that free thinkers have been persecuted since man made fire and left the caves. To quote the Social Darwinism theory from Mrs. Cornils' 9th grade history class, the ideas that are truly good will survive and the weak ones will get picked off. It's sad to think that the next James Joyce might have gotten an F in English and given up, but teachers can't give As just to be supportive. And if Joyce, Jr. isn't strong enough to overcome one mean teacher, then he isn't strong enough to be Joyce, Jr.Bretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04806433117335903276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-23149375713262170522007-03-08T18:00:00.000-07:002007-03-08T18:00:00.000-07:00Molly and Kurt,I do think that it can be unfair th...Molly and Kurt,<BR/>I do think that it can be unfair that truly bright students can sometimes get screwed over by ACTs and CSAP, but when you're working with literally millions of students, you must generalize to find proficiency. Perhaps colleges could accept students by looking at their test scores and then more closely evaluate those who had lower scores but that is another argument. It would be impossible to evaluate every student individually.<BR/><BR/>The wonderful thing about so many of the teachers at Arapahoe is that they are willing to throw out the book to recognize talent, as in Crosby's case. But there are subjects, like math, science, and some business classes that require hard, fast rules. And I hate hate hate how much teachers think about what would be "fun," because life is not always fun. Perhaps if my driver's ed teacher had spent more time on responsible driving and less time on "good-offense defensive driving," the smoking heap in the NE corner of the east lot might instead be nestled safely at home. (Just kidding, it's still my fault.)<BR/><BR/>Carolyn's comments are particularly interesting, perhaps that's something to think about to make AHS more preparatory.<BR/><BR/>And Crosby's points also hold true. I hated trig and pre-calc, but those were classes that not only taught me things that I cannot remember at this moment, but the class also taught me better study habits to ensure that I made the grade in a class I dislike (sidebar: I didn't make the grade...). Boring classes are a fact of life and perhaps time might be better spent in those classes finding something to learn, rather than giving up and complaining about how pointless school can be. <BR/><BR/>In reference to Kurt, perhaps ADD and Ritalin are overused to control the mind. Good point there. But if that is the case, blame shouldn't rest on the school. It should rest on the parents, irresponsible teachers, and doctors who make the recommendations. (Hope I don't ruffle too many feathers with that last bit. Or maybe I do)<BR/><BR/>Honestly and off-the-record, I think that my education's shortfalls were my own fault and I can only think of one or two "bad" teachers.Bretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04806433117335903276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-22227724510891732532007-03-08T15:27:00.000-07:002007-03-08T15:27:00.000-07:00I like the reference carolyn made to a work-like e...I like the reference carolyn made to a work-like environment. I don't know about other students, but personally I thrive in a more goal oriented but unstructured environment. It may just be that winter slump, but classes can seem so stifling. I go crazy having to sit in the exact same position for hours on end without really being able to move or do what I want. Sometimes it's really nice to have a tangible goal. Sure, a high score on a test is nice, but eventually all the tests start to look the same to me. Chemistry labs are a good example of balanced learning. We may complain about them, but not only do they illustrate the concept at hand, but we're doing real chemistry, not just talking about it. And then we have to write a report on it. Maybe that's what we need, a chance to do real work. Not just talk about real work, but actually do it. We're certainly capable enough. So how about in English, instead of writing about how someone else wrote an essay or a story, let's write about our own ideas for a change. Or in math or physics, instead of just doing some word problem, let's calculate just how high we can make bouncy balls go and then actually do it. It's nice to feel like we have some purpose other than sitting in some fluorescently lit room with 35 of the exact same desks. <BR/><BR/>Maybe that's why I choose to spend all my free time in the theatre. Mr. Earley tells me to build a train and that's it. I can do it however I want. I don't get my grade dropped if I insert a screw at the wrong angle. I have the freedom to do my own work and the materials to make it happen. And if I screw up, I learn and I have to think my way through it again. That's my preferred style of education. It's nice to feel productive.MollyGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10734141484506665059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-58643247959524891462007-03-08T14:50:00.000-07:002007-03-08T14:50:00.000-07:00Mr. Fisch-Just another thing to ponder while you w...Mr. Fisch-<BR/><BR/>Just another thing to ponder while you worry about the "geniuses" of history and their exploits at Arapahoe; but wouldn't most of those figures have been regarded as too imaginative and unable to focus? Wouldn't most of them have been put on a drug to change this behavior? Imagine Einstein on Ritalin. To play off the Foo Fighters: There goes my genius... <BR/><BR/>http://www.gdcada.org/statistics/ritalin/dea.htm http://www.gdcada.org/statistics/ritalin.htm <BR/><BR/>As for the topic, I definitely agree with Mr. Fisch. The structure of education, and today's society in general, can destroy the individualism of a person. While unique people have always been viewed as outcasts; now we have various means to change them and make them just a face in the crowd. After all, the SAT and ACT are the greatest determining factor for colleges to pick their students, <I>not</I> whether they are geniuses or individuals. The same applies to CSAP's. <BR/><BR/> <BR/><BR/>Quote: "You ask, "Is it okay for our students' thoughts and ideas and feelings to be so easily dismissed? For them to be sad at the thought of going to school?" <BR/><BR/>I suppose my answer is YES." <BR/> <BR/><BR/>It should never be accepted for a teacher to push aside how a student feels about an assignment, or a project, or school in general. How can a person relate to another if the feelings are left out of the conversation? From this quote it sounds like Mr. Fisch's question is being proven. If teachers do not care about the ideas of the students then how can they be gleaning the mind? <BR/><BR/>Lastly, what is with all the ad hominem in these posts? I knew I would have to remind new bloggers, but a group of teachers? Name calling and generalization get this debate nowhere, in fact, in a way overgeneralizing supports what Mr. Fisch is saying. Honestly, why does it matter if Mr. Fisch is not in a classroom every hour? Part of his job as the facilitator for this new style of learning is to help the teachers adapt to a newer way of thinking. Besides, how often does a teacher have the time to sit down and evaluate if they related to/with every individual in each class? Not often is my guess, and I think this because I have only had two teachers ever ask me how I was doing. And only one did so during the class period. Perhaps I am being to sensitive and taking what is being said too personally, but I feel that a lot more can be gained from this discussion if we focus on the topic and not the people presenting.Kurt W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12970569408654857908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-30151480507463791332007-03-08T08:09:00.000-07:002007-03-08T08:09:00.000-07:00Maybe Spring has sprung early in Texas--it is nice...Maybe Spring has sprung early in Texas--it is nice and warm and flowers are blooming!<BR/><BR/>I was reflecting on MollyG's comments particularly as I was reading (belatedly) this whole discussion.<BR/><BR/>I've been thinking of an article I read somewhere about video gaming and employees, and how most twenty-something employees have been raised in the era of videogames. The effect of that is that employees want to finish a task and "move to the next level." <BR/><BR/>I'm thinking one of the downfalls of "group" instruction, per se, is that it doesn't allow students to complete things and move to the next level.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, there is a lot of value in the conversation that goes on when the whole class is reading a novel together, or share a community lecture, etc.<BR/><BR/>So...how to have a system or learning environment where both can happen--where you can have both the interaction or common conversation and face to face, but also allow people to move along at a pace suitable to their learning? That is a tough question.<BR/>Not every learner is self-motivated enough to learn completely autonomously or online, by any means. But the traditional classroom structure, which has the merits of a community and bonding, also has its definite limits and downsides.<BR/><BR/>I recently visited High Tech High School in California with a group from my campus. While it was somewhat mind-blowing, it seemed a little closer to a model that allowed for the group dynamic, but also allowed students more flexibility.<BR/><BR/>Students were still working on the same project, but the projects were integrated across math, physics, English, and art at the same time. <BR/><BR/>Students were working on building a lever, for example, but the math/science teacher had taught the trig they needed to do it, the science behind it, and the English teacher was working with them on writing a reflection on why their project did/did not work.<BR/><BR/>Another project involved the physics, engineering, and art teacher to design an art print that illustrated a science concept.<BR/><BR/>I really liked that more integrated approach because it seems reflective of how we learn or create things out in the work world.<BR/><BR/>I also liked the idea of a more "work-like" environment for students--they were often moving about the building from room to room, working on their projects and interacting with other classes, just as you would as a professional or in an office environment.<BR/><BR/>Lots of good questions in this discussion. I don't feel a sense of despair myself--maybe it's the spring in the air. I feel a sense of opportunities opening up and of this global conversation contributing to our growth as professionals...<BR/><BR/>It takes awhile for seedlings to grow....<BR/><BR/>My two cents worth from Texas...Carolyn Footehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07581454611313810543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-28783290943099675702007-03-08T07:48:00.000-07:002007-03-08T07:48:00.000-07:00Well, regarding "needing" lit and math classes, he...Well, regarding "needing" lit and math classes, here's my position on a broad liberal arts education. Most people enter college with no idea about what their majors will be, even if they think they know. I cannot think of a single friend of mine from college who graduated with the same degree he or she expected in August of our freshman year. So why do you need a range of classes in high school? From a practical standpoint, you need to have the prerequisites to accomplish what you want to accomplish. What if a person decides at the age of 20 that she wants to be a doctor, but she never took any science beyond biology in high school? She'd have to spend many more years in college (and tons of money) catching up on the knowledge she missed out on in high school and the first few years of college.<BR/><BR/>From a philosophical standpoiont, however, I think that you need to take a variety of classes because they broaden your view of the world and help your brain make all sorts of physical connections that improve your thinking. No, as far as I know I don't use calculus anymore. But taking calculus was a good brain exercise. We talk all the time about the need to do physical exercise to keep our bodies in shape. What about our brains? Aside from the fact that I was a perfectionist who stressed myself out all the time, I loved school. Many American teenagers today have eighteen years during which their main job is to learn. Wow! I'm not saying that our education system is perfect, by any means. But I think that (particularly for females!) being a student today in the United States isn't quite as horrible as some young people seem to think.Crosbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05717342288587946592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-87386403729710585052007-03-08T07:46:00.000-07:002007-03-08T07:46:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Crosbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05717342288587946592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-36759206241732019422007-03-07T23:02:00.000-07:002007-03-07T23:02:00.000-07:00Brett, Molly, and Ben--It's wonderful hearing from...Brett, Molly, and Ben--It's wonderful hearing from you guys! Thank you for your thoughtful and interesting responses. You've given me much to think about.Cheryl Makovskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04692413352688965561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-73730110132509430782007-03-07T22:30:00.000-07:002007-03-07T22:30:00.000-07:00Well, I may just be the cynic around here, but con...Well, I may just be the cynic around here, but considering my feelings about dragging myself to school every morning, Shakespeare would probably be terribly bored. My main issue with the education system is that it's so standardized. There is no possible way one system can work for all the millions of young people in the world. <BR/><BR/>Einstein himself said that "it's a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." He did not get along well with teachers. They told him that he asked too many questions they didn't understand. But I challenge you to consider Einstein in an advanced english class. Surely he would have been smart enough, but beyond a certain point, he would never need it. That is the problem with education. <BR/><BR/>I am certainly no Shakespeare or Einstein, but I am bored to death. During math class, I find myself either asleep, writing or calculating how many hours of my life have been wasted listening to a teacher explain a concept I understood in two minutes. That is my major issue with education. Not only will I never, ever need to know that y/x=tan(thada), but I don't need to listen to an hour's worth of examples to use the equation. <BR/><BR/>It seems like such a grand waste of time to sit in classrooms for hours on end, when maybe only 20 minutes of actual learning takes place per day. During my math class the other day, I calculated that over the course of just a single month, if I were paid $10/hour for every hour spent in the school, I could easily make over $2500. That's not including homework time, weekends, breaks, anything. I also figured out that during four hours of doing real work with professionals I learned more useful information than in two weeks of school. Not much incentive for me to pay attention to my pre-calc now is there? <BR/><BR/>I know, incentive is the wrong word. I'm not saying that students should be paid for school (though it would be nice) or that we should be entertained all the time. What I am saying is that students should be able to tailor our own education to our needs. I'm guessing maybe one out of six people will ever need math beyond geometry. I can't see why the rest of us should have to force ourselves through three years of things we will never need or remember just to graduate. It's not just math either. Someone who knows he or she will be an engineer shouldn't have to schlep through extra years of tedious reading analysis or grammatical corrections. <BR/><BR/>So maybe the school system does work well for the majority of people. I probably whine too much. I've always been a bit different from the mainstream. But, then again, shakespeare and picasso weren't exactly in the majority either.MollyGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10734141484506665059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-31837528588138744522007-03-07T22:24:00.000-07:002007-03-07T22:24:00.000-07:00The Jefferson stuff is priceless! This all makes ...The Jefferson stuff is priceless! This all makes me think about an exam I gave today. One essay option asked, "Why is it important that Americans living in 2007 learn about Marxism?" One student's response was not an "essay" exactly, but was one of the best pieces of student writing I have probably ever received. I plan to post it on my blog after I obtain the student's permission, but as a preview, he answered the question with a thoughtfully sarcastic and relevant "answer" to the question from people such as Adam Smith, a Democrat, a Republican, Michael Jackson, a high school senior, someone named Ms. Crosby, and many others. It was a great response! My first thought was, "You know, some teacher out there would probably mark points off because he didn't write a traditional essay." My next thought was "Should I break with my philosophical opposition to extra credit and reward it for this amazing response?" My point is that I think free-thinkers aren't shut down throughout the halls of AHS. That doesn't mean we're perfect by any means, or that we don't accidentally shut them down sometimes, but I don't think we collectively do that to our students. If we did, I can't see why hundreds of kids from outside our attendance area would come here. (I realize that the last sentence opens me up to comments about parents sending their kids here and "shutting them down less doesn't mean we're doing something good," etc., but it's late and I've spent hours blogging, so I'm going to sign off.)Crosbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05717342288587946592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16660456.post-60971105764866313182007-03-07T16:33:00.000-07:002007-03-07T16:33:00.000-07:00Hi KarlI am Javier, the founder of Trendirama.com,...Hi Karl<BR/>I am Javier, the founder of Trendirama.com, the fastest growing community of amateur writers writing about The Future of everything. We would like to invite you to join us and write an article on the website, perhaps "The future of education?" or whatever you are passionate about... <BR/>It is up to you, you choose the subject.<BR/>You would get a link back when you link to your own article, if you wish.<BR/>You can even re-use some of what you have here, in the last part of the article, "your view and comments". That would save you time and still be interesting for readers.<BR/>And yes, I know you may not have the time. Theoretically, none of us do...;)<BR/><BR/>Failing that, if you like the project and you can help us spread the word -even if you don't write- it would be great. <BR/>Since we are starting, any help is appreciated.<BR/><BR/>By making this valuable information available online for free, I truly believe we are helping to make the world a better place.<BR/>And you could do your bit for the world too, by sharing what you know, as we already do.<BR/><BR/>Please let us know if you link or mention us, so we can link you back too if you wish.<BR/>You can even use our valuable articles on your websites, provided that you link back. Any better offer than that?! :)<BR/><BR/>Look forward to hearing from you or reading your interesting article at Trendirama! <BR/><BR/>Best regards<BR/>Javier Marti<BR/>http://www.trendirama.comJavier Martihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04360354942213559981noreply@blogger.com