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Tuesday, July 27, 2010

Transparent Algebra: Writing

It won’t come as a surprise that I value writing. A lot. For me, writing helps me think about whatever I’m thinking about. It makes me clarify what I understand and don’t understand, and what I believe. One of the main reasons I blog is to help me think about stuff.

I also value writing in the classroom, whether that’s a Language Arts classroom, an Art classroom, or, yes, a Math classroom. I want my students to reflect on their own learning process, to think more about whatever they are thinking about, and to be able to communicate that to others both verbally and in writing. My struggle is how to do that well in a Math classroom.

It’s a struggle for me primarily for three reasons. First, the old excuse of time. I’ve complained previously (see my comment here, the one from me that starts “@David Cox - You're going . . .” - I can't link directly to it) about not having as much time as I’d like in my Algebra class, and providing time for writing is one more thing to try to squeeze in.

The second issue is overcoming expectations. Students (and their parents, and my administrators) have an expectation of what a math classroom looks like. I’m pushing the envelope on those expectations in quite a few ways, and writing will be one more way. While I’m willing to have those conversations, there’s also the practical matter of not pushing too far, too fast, or I might lose some folks along the way.

The third, and perhaps most important issue, is that I’m not sure how to do it well. When I’m writing primarily for myself, like on this blog, I know what to do. But when I’m having students write in the service of mathematics learning, then I feel like I need to reach a higher standard of purpose and meaningfulness. I don’t want to have them write just because I find writing valuable, I want them to write because it is valuable for them.

So, given all those caveats (yeah, okay, excuses), here are my fledgling ideas for how I’m going to use writing in my classroom. Please chime in not only with suggestions about my ideas below, but additional suggestions of how I could use writing in my Algebra classroom. This first year back I anticipate not being able to do as much writing as I eventually hope to, but the great thing about this blog is that it will still be here a year from now when I try to improve what I did this year.

  • About Me
    The first writing assignment the students will do is an About Me piece. In fact, I’m actually giving this to the students before the school year even starts. I already called all the parents to make sure they had broadband access at home and I asked for an email address when I talked with them. I then emailed them some preliminary information about the class (more on parent communication in a future post). Next week I’m going to follow-up that email with a second email, that will have a little more information for the parents, but is primarily information that I’m asking them to pass along to their student. (Once the school year starts we’ll have Google Apps for Education, and therefore students will have an email address I’ll use but, for now, I’m going through their parents.) One part of that is giving them the About Me assignment.

    They do not have to work on this before school starts, it will be an assignment the first week, but I highly recommend that they do for two reasons. First, that’s one less piece of homework they’ll have to do that first crazy week back. And second, it will allow me to know a little bit about them before that first week of school. Here’s the prompt as well as my own About Me piece, as I want to – as often as is practical – complete any writing assignments I assign to my students. This will also give them a chance to know a little bit about me before the first week of school.

  • Reflection
    One of my stated goals for this course is for students to be metacognitive, to think about their own learning and use that self-knowledge to become better learners. So a yet-to-be-determined number of times a semester I’m going to ask them to reflect on their learning. I’m not sure of all of those prompts yet, I’d like to strike a balance between giving them something pretty specific to focus on (like Dean’s suggestion in the comments here), and leaving it general so they can write about what they feel is important.

    I’ve tentatively scheduled the first reflective piece to be at the end of the first week of school. I’m going to ask them to reflect back on the first week, to share any questions or concerns they have about the structure and expectations of our class, and to set a couple of goals for the semester (one related to our class, one related to another class, or an activity or sport, or something outside of school). Then periodically throughout the semester/year, I’ll ask them to reflect on their learning, what’s working for them, what’s a challenge, and anything else they’d like to share. I’d love any suggestions for prompts you’d like to share in the comments.

  • Conferring
    I really like the idea of conferring, where teachers meet with students to talk about their writing. I’m going to try something similar about the first of October, when I’ll ask my students to write something. It might be along the lines of the reflection mentioned above, or it might be about a mathematical topic, I’m not sure yet. In either event I’ll ask them to submit it and then schedule a time to come in and meet with me so that we can talk about it. The timing (first of October) is designed so that this happens once we're well into the school year, but before our scheduled Parent/Teacher Conferences.

  • Parent/Teacher Conferences
    We have two nights scheduled for parent/teacher conferences in the middle of October. This is designed as a time for parents to have 5-7 minute conversations with teachers. While I like the spirit of this, I don’t particularly like the format, as I don’t think it’s particularly timely or useful. If a student is struggling in my class, I don’t want to wait until mid-October and conferences to talk about it. I also don’t think 5-7 minutes is necessarily optimal, and I’ve always been a fan of having the student present at any conference that talks about the student. While I can think of a few rare occasions when it would be helpful to meet without the student present, the vast majority of the time I think they should be there.

    I’m going to suggest to the parents in my class that they bring their student with them. I’m also going to ask my students to write something for parent/teacher conferences a few days ahead of time. This will be along the lines of the reflection/conferring ideas, but directed toward this parent/teacher/hopefully-student conversation about how Algebra is going for them. I’ll then ask them to share it not only with me, but also with their parents before conferences. That piece of writing will then provide the focus for our conference, and should provide some student voice even if the parents choose not to bring the student.

  • Writing about Mathematics
    I’ll be asking my students to write about mathematics on a fairly regular basis. They’ll have writing questions occasionally as an opener, sometimes as part of their assessments, and fairly frequently as part of our in-class activities. Again, I would love any suggestions you have in terms of prompts that would help elicit their thinking about mathematical ideas.
There are other things I’ve considered but have decided not to do, at least initially. Most notably are scribe posts, an idea I first learned of from Darren Kuropatwa, and an idea I really like. At the moment, I don’t feel like I have time to do them well, or that they would add enough value for my students. I know I could do them, but I feel like I would be doing them just so that I could say that I’m doing scribe posts. Given all the other new (and perhaps unusual) things I’m asking my student to do, I’ve decided to hold off for now on scribe posts.

That's what I've got so far. I’d love your thoughts on any of the above ideas, including suggestions for prompts, as well as any additional suggestions for me to mull over and perhaps implement sometime this year (or next).

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13 Comments:

Blogger Ben Bleckley said...

Karl,

I don't teach math, but I was in a book club reading Content Area Writing by Steven Zemelmann, Harvey Daniels, and Nancy Steineke. It was a great resource overall, but it also contained the best example of writing in math I think I've ever seen.

They suggested having students do a double entry journal for math problems, where their math (numbers, equations, pictures) are on one side, and their thought process was on the other. I've always thought of double entry journals in reading as a written think aloud; this is a written think aloud for math.

It sounds like you're doing some amazing things with this course. What a great opportunity for you and your students.

7/27/10 5:58 PM  
Blogger Karl Fisch said...

Ben Bleckley - Too funny, that book is currently sitting on my dresser, waiting to be read. I'll look for that example. Thanks.

7/27/10 7:58 PM  
Blogger Kelly Pauling said...

Karl,

I commend you for embedding writing into the Algebra classroom. Writing is a critical skill and it helps all of us think at deeper levels. A resource I recommend to teachers I work with is the Write to Know series. It is inexpensive - $9.95/book I think and has writing prompts already developed. They have one specifically for Algebra - http://208.112.23.23/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CFPAE&Product_Code=WTKA&Category_Code=
and for other content areas as well.

Another resourse is the Write Now video prompts. These were developed by our local PBS station -- they have a variety of content areas. http://kellyscurriculumcorner.blogspot.com/2009/08/write-now-video-prompts.html

Also Discovery Education has a large number of writing prompts ready for teachers. However, teachers can also create their own prompts.

Happy Writing!

7/28/10 6:25 AM  
Blogger Jackie Ballarini said...

Most of my writing assignments are shorter. A type of "focused free write". I give them 5 to 7 minutes to write about a specific topic. Examples include: compare/contrast the two different methods we saw for solving the last problem (used after students share their work), explain how the graph relates to the table relates to the equation, write everything you know about solving a quadratic.

Sometimes I collect what they've written, not for a grade, but for me to see their thought process/level of understanding. Sometimes I then share the summarized results with the class the next day. Other times I have them share their thoughts in their small groups, then have each group share a summary to the whole class. Other times it is just for themselves.

I don't think I did enough of this last year. Thank you for reminding me!

7/28/10 7:26 AM  
Blogger BOC said...

To learn to write is to learn to think, Robert Frost said.

I love the idea of having students write/reflect on their learning in math (or any other subject (though we ought to think about other ways of doing the same, especially when dealing with students from non-literary traditions, or oral cultures.) My math teacher at my previous school had a "Math is Real" writing program, which met moderate success. the lesson learned was that the writing had to be authentic. See Angela Maiers comments on authentic writing referenced here http://bit.ly/c6IaaG

7/28/10 8:40 AM  
Blogger Karl Fisch said...

Kelly Pauling - Thanks for the links. Have you used the Algebra Write to Know book? I'm just wondering what level it's written for. Sometimes books says "Algebra" but they're really about algebraic thinking in younger grades. Which is great, but not necessarily what I'm looking for.

7/28/10 8:51 AM  
Blogger Karl Fisch said...

Jackie Ballarini - Thanks for sharing that. Have you thought of throwing all those prompts into a document (or wiki) and posting them somewhere? Hint.

7/28/10 8:52 AM  
Blogger Karl Fisch said...

BOC - Robert Frost? What does he know about writing? :-)

Yeah, that's what I'm struggling with. How to make writing about math "real" as opposed to "schooly."

7/28/10 8:54 AM  
Blogger Kelly Pauling said...

Karl,

The Algebra book is part of a High Set. They have an elementary and middle school sets. I am not a math teacher, but the content looked appropriate for high school, especially when compared to the the others.

7/28/10 10:36 AM  
Blogger lgaffney said...

I appreciate the cross-curricular message you're communicating to your students and also the value you're placing on writing, particularly meta-cognitive pieces. That is how you teach students to understand the why which you expressed a personal struggle with as you're asking them to stop doing and think about what they're doing, an exercise we don't practice enough as we try to "cover" the content. I love the emphasis you're placing on knowing them too. Before class has even started, you are creating a culture that values each individual. Having said that, stop making the rest of us look bad. :)

7/30/10 10:50 AM  
Blogger Phil said...

Great topic!

I really enjoyed what Bill Lombard aka Mr. L had to say about it in his book http://www.tttpress.com/store/books_language.html.

I agree that it is difficult to make writing in mathematics not seem contrived. Thankfully, I have a wonderful humanities team teacher who has helped me to understand and implement what I want to impart. Truly it is trying to bring out the inner math geek in each of my students.

Sometimes I ask my students to reflect upon what they are struggling with or put it into context of a scenario of helping someone else.

I enjoyed working through Alice in Wonderland with my students and talking about all of the mathematical ideas and concepts Carroll placed throughout the text. Since the movie was so fresh in their minds it was easy to grab their interest with it.

I also enjoy the Exeter Problems (http://exeter.edu/academics/84_9408.aspx) and the Drexel Problem of the Week (http://mathforum.org/pow/productinfo.html). These are more open ended questions that have challenged all of my students to propose ideas to one another.

My final suggestions are the Fermi Problems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_problem) and the Lateral Thinking Puzzle Books (search Amazon). While these may not directly be tied into the curriculum, they are challenging and cause a lot of critical thinking and fun. Even Kakuro is a ton of fun with some critical thinking and reinforcement of middle school math.

After reading your blog for so many years, I don't believe your intention is to just get them writing about the joys of the quadratic equation but to have them enjoying the thinking and reasoning. I am with you on that, and I look forward to hearing more.

www.brokenairplane.com (Ed Blog)

8/4/10 1:05 AM  
Blogger Lori said...

I was intrigued by your post about writing in math class. It seems so elemental, yet so few of us do it. Although the ideas of personal learning reflection are a wonderful idea to get students writing (B. Russek had some great reflection ideas - http://wac.colostate.edu/journal/vol9/russek.pdf), I think that also being able to communicate math with words is important for comprehension and cognitive development. What if students were paired and had to write to one another about math...a pen pal of sorts. Maybe from one class to another? But the ability to communicate algebraic relationships into words, and then putting those words on paper (or electronically) could have a huge impact. Groups of students could have wikis or blogs to communicate about math with one another if you wanted to save a tree or two. The possibilities are endless.

8/12/10 1:37 PM  
Blogger Lee Varty said...

Thanks for posting your plans and rationale for your algebra class. I've struggled in the past with getting kids to write in math, but as I'm starting in a new school in the fall, I'm going to make the attempt again. I like some of the other comments here as well -- things like double-entry journals, etc. I have a book sitting in my new classroom on writing in math -- too bad it's not here with me as I grab a final few days of camping before going back to work...

I plan to beg, borrow, and steal ideas wherever I find them, and one of those is the course syllabus you posted earlier this summer. I really liked the section you had on expectations, and I'd like to adapt what you've done to the middle school math classes I'll be teaching in the fall. If you don't mind...

8/13/10 10:53 AM  

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Thinking in Hashtags

We went shopping for clothes today. This is not something we do very often, but my wife had a gift card for Dillards so we went to see if we could find anything. My wife finally found some shirts she wanted to try on, but the store was short-staffed so the first couple of fitting rooms we tried were locked up. Eventually we found an open fitting room and a salesperson, and my wife said the salesperson laid out the clothes she was trying on in the dressing room, ruffled them up, and generally made it look like a display before leaving and letting her try them on.

I'm sure the salesperson was doing her job the way she's supposed to, and many people would consider that customer service, but I was thinking that true customer service would've had all the fitting rooms unlocked instead of treating your customers like potential shoplifters. Actually, what I thought was
#realcustomerservicewouldvebeentohavethefittingroomsunlocked
Seriously, that's the way the thought generated itself in my head.

I'm not saying this is necessarily important, there may be no "there" here, but I find it interesting that apparently my online activities have actually affected the way I think. If I'm actually thinking in hashtags, then it's almost like I've changed the grammar of the way I think. I find that fascinating. Has anyone else found themselves actually thinking differently as a result of how you interact online?

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OpenID Meredith (@msstewart) said...

Me, too! I have started typing hashtags in emails, only to realize that the person (who's not on twitter) would likely have no idea what I meant. I think there needs to be a physical gesture for hashtag (in the vein of air quotes) for use in conversations.

7/27/10 1:44 PM  
Blogger Claudia Ceraso said...

I'm a fan of lists. Nowadays, I'm trying to use Remember the Milk to sort them out. Love it.

A few days ago, the computer was off so I grabbed a post-it note to write a little something before I forget. To my surprise, I found myself tagging it. I had never done that before.

Not sure what the use of a tag is on paper, except that the note would end in RTM afterwords. But it was kind of compulsive: how could I not tag it?

Tags are probably hard-wiring our brains.

7/27/10 1:46 PM  
Blogger Franki said...

This is a great story. I have been fascinated by the ways hashtags have evolved and the clever ways people have been using them. They are a great new format/genre or something.

7/27/10 8:16 PM  
Blogger Jude said...

Even though I haven't had a regular blog for a couple of years, I still find myself writing in my head about events that I'm living through. For example, yesterday I attended a concert in Aspen. During intermission, I was blogging in my head about the nice man I'd talked to before the concert started. Was I born to be a blogger or does blogging take over one's brain so thoroughly that you view the entire world as a potential blog post? To answer that, let us know if you planned this hashtag post while you were in the store. Did you write it in your head on your way home?

7/28/10 6:15 AM  
Blogger Karl Fisch said...

Jude - Yes, I started composing the post in my head while still in the store. Scary.

7/28/10 8:55 AM  

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Friday, July 16, 2010

The Myth of the Echo Chamber

This topic deserves more than what I'm going to write today, but I wanted to quickly share this thought. On a regular basis on Twitter and on blogs and in books I read, people warn about not getting stuck in the echo chamber. In fact, I've said it myself more than once. While I value diverse and opposing opinions, and think they are necessary and critical, here's what I think:
There is no "echo chamber." It's a myth.
Do you follow at least one person on Twitter? Then you're not in an echo chamber.

Do you have someone's blog other than your own in your RSS aggregator? Then you're not in an echo chamber.

Do you teach/work in a building with at least one other person that you talk to? Then you're not in an echo chamber.

Do you have a family? Friends? A neighborhood? Then you're not in an echo chamber.

Yes, if you look at the folks I follow on Twitter, or the blogs I read, or the friends I associate with - they probably share some characteristics in their views about education (just to narrow this down a bit). But echo chamber? No way.
  • I learn from people that believe IWB's are a huge waste of time and money. And folks that think they are very useful.

  • I learn from people that think PLN is a term that is essentially meaningless and does more harm than good. And folks that think PLN is a powerful organizing concept for how we can learn in a networked world.

  • I learn from people that think if you can't measure it, it's not important. And from folks that think that if you can measure it, then it's not very important.

  • I learn from people that think standards-based-grading is a powerful way to provide meaningful feedback to students. And from folks that think that "standards" and "grading" are the antithesis of what education should be about.
And, at different times, I find myself agreeing with both "sides" of the above supposedly-there-are-only-two-sides-of-the-argument issues. As I continue to search for the "truth" (lowercase 't', capital 'T', I don't know), I expect that that will continue.

Not only do I think there is no echo chamber, I think there is also tremendous power in having discussions with people who do think in a similar (although not exact) way to you. Communities of similarly-minded people, passionate people, working in concert, can accomplish amazing things. We shouldn't denigrate that, we should celebrate it.

So, by all means continue to bring in diverse and opposing viewpoints into your PLN (or your not-PLN if you don't like the term). And continue to stretch yourself and your thinking by reading and tweeting and talking to new people. But please don't ever apologize for associating with other folks who passionately believe things similar to you, and please don't buy into the myth of the echo chamber. It doesn't exist.

Feel free to disagree in the comments.

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Blogger Alan said...

I have to echo what you said ;-)

Of course a chamber implies a complete closure which never happens truly on the net. You cannot be there an avoid people outside your own ______ network.

Maybe the thing is to keep in mind that we can fall into a mythical chamber if we are only tuning into a place where everyone agrees, if we can accept that there are always opposite, and valid (sometimes) opinions to our own.

But yeah, I agree, they dont really exist. It becomes a cheap line that is used to diffuse a conversation ("Well that's a fine Karl idea, but you are just living in an echo chamber")

7/16/10 10:27 AM  
Blogger Matthew Woolums said...

I found this TED talk from Ethan Zuckerman to be an extension of this conversation. Essentially, he says we do stick close to home and could do better in connecting to global communities. While echo chambers may not exist, most of us never venture far from our own close knit community.
Ethan Zuckerman: Listening to global voices

7/16/10 10:30 AM  
Blogger Michael Wacker said...

I'm with you,(echo) I've said the term more than once, and usually as a precursor to a dissenting opinion that I'm about to say or agree with. It's catchy, it has some cache and jargon-ness about it, because people understand and can relate to it. (Which as an aside is why many are so comfortable with terms like PLN)
I think that when we blindly agree and begin to "echo" things ourselves we do contribute to the noise, agenda, or idea that someone may be pushing, but so long as we are entertaining opinions and thoughts besides our own, we are better off for it.
That said though, I've seen people, departments, teams, get stuck in ruts; agreeing with everything and being scared or afraid to dissent. So, in those situations we are "trapped" in an echo chamber of sorts where dissension is seen as not being a team player; and new ideas are stuck in heads or blogs, but are not in the rooms where change and progress can occur.

7/16/10 10:33 AM  
Blogger George Haines said...

I disagree. I find such overwhelming groupthink from the edtech community on Twitter that I often have to debate positions I essentially agree with just to stop the echo chamber I see every day.
I think we need to look no further than the edtech community on Twitter as proof that we desperately need to teach critical thinking better in schools.
Curious to see how balanced the comments are on this post. My guess is that most people will blindly agree with you without examining and questioning their beliefs.

We'll see.

Good post though, thanks for sharing your POV.

7/16/10 10:48 AM  
Blogger Matt Townsley said...

After reading your commentary this came to mind:
Even the "echo chamber" itself that some of your "PLN" suggests, Karl, can get interesting. You and I may agree on the main premises of standards-based grading, but following that agreement may yield a back-and-forth discussion focused on what it could/should look like in a specific classroom. That's where the big idea echo chamber sharpens those of us who agree - it presses us to understand our own beliefs at a detailed level.

On the flip side, I wanted to suggest that the "watch out for the echo chamber" folks might be some of the same people who think their "PLN" only consists of folks they know virtually. In my own understanding and interpretation of personal learning networks, face-to-face colleagues are a large part, too, which further negates the echo chamber idea, because our colleagues don't agree with everything we think. If they did, we probably wouldn't feel the need to "create a PLN," right? :)

7/16/10 11:23 AM  
Blogger Michelle said...

I think it's very important to build a balanced network, both on- and offline. Mine is just as likely to say "I disagree" as "I agree." I follow blogs and people on Twitter who I know will push and stretch my thinking. We can disagree in a civil and respectful manner, yet still provide value to others. I actively seek out those who will play the devil's advocate role... and I'm just as willing to do the same.

I really like this post, Karl, because I think there are many out there who see a PLN (or whatever term you want to use) as an echo chamber or bandwagon group... or whatever the term du jour is. I think if you see too much "groupthink," then your network isn't balanced appropriately.

If I wanted a group of minions who simply echoed my thoughts and agreed with me all the time, I wouldn't be stretching myself or learning. For me, it's ALL about the learning and connecting with others. That's how I grow... and thus how I roll. ;-)

7/16/10 12:05 PM  
Blogger Wm Chamberlain said...

The echo chamber occurs when we allow others to do our thinking for us. I may be wrong but this isn't about agreeing with the ideas but accepting others opinions without thought or examination.

I will take either side of an argument for the job of the back and forth. Twitter and commenting are not the best way to banter, too much is at stake and there is too little opportunity to become a devil's advocate without others misrepresenting your motives or even beliefs. I really believe this stifles some great learning opportunities.

7/16/10 12:14 PM  
Blogger Kassissieh said...

I recently escaped the echo chamber and feel much better for it. Most EdTech conversations are so far removed from the primary issues facing our other school-based colleagues. I have found it so refreshing to refocus my efforts on teaching and learning, relegating technology to it's proper place as a tool frequently used to extend the learning environment, rather than the first focus of conversation.

EdTech professionals who wish to reform schools would do well to read up on decades of extensive school reform literature.

While some dissent in this thread may be a good sign, it pales with the other 99% of opinions from the school community that are not represented here. For example, I suspect that only two of 200 employees in my school are in a position to read this post and participate in this conversation.

Richard

7/16/10 3:55 PM  
Blogger Tim said...

It seems as if the people leveling the "echo chamber" accusation are often those who disagree with the people in the group they claim are in the chamber. Certainly if you only associated with people who were clones of yourself, you would get an echo. But I can't point to one other person in the education community who articulates 100% of my thoughts on any matter.

The key is that a person much choose to be open to hearing and considering the differences they have with other members of their communities. The true echo chamber is formed when you stop listening to anyone but your own thoughts, and those you already subscribe to.

As to Richard's statement "only two of 200 employees in my school are in a position to read this post and participate in this conversation", it has nothing to do with "edtech" and neither does Karl's original post. It's about communication and how you create a network to learn from and with. I would challenge you to send the post link to those 200 people and see how they respond. You might learn something about your colleagues. :-)

7/17/10 8:00 AM  
Blogger MMWmS said...

A week or so ago, I would have wholeheartedly agreed that the concept of "echo chamber" is overstating the true state of affairs. Now, even though I frequently run up against opinions, ideas that I don't agree with in my reading and discussions, I'm not so sure that an echo chamber of sorts doesn't exist. It has much more to do with technology haves and have nots than it has to do with those in or out of the daily use of technology for teaching and learning.

There are still a huge (at least it's seeming huge to me) number of teachers and administrators in situations where it's easy to avoid technology, and simultaneously the kind of collaborative re-examination of learning that can accompany daily use. Extraordinary effort is sometimes necessary to make learning with technology happen at all.

For those folks, who I submit are in their own "echo chamber" of sorts, it's so easy to see an "echo chamber" of technologically reform-minded, "out of touch" folks whom it's easy to scoff at, and easier to ignore.

So we end up with our two "echo chambers" of those involved with reform and technology and those without the access or the will to pursue access. Both tend to be self-reinforcing. How do we bridge the gap?

7/17/10 9:04 AM  
Blogger Karl Fisch said...

Alan - I guess that’s probably what spurred this post – the idea that the folks using “echo chamber” were too often using it to close off discussion. It was an easy way to dismiss an argument/discussion without truly engaging with it.

7/17/10 3:07 PM  
Blogger Karl Fisch said...

Matthew Woolums - I haven’t watched Zuckerman’s talk yet (it’s on the list), but I have read some of what he’s said. I agree that my community is not as diverse as it could be – or needs to be – but that’s still a far cry from an echo chamber. Somewhat by definition, a community is going to be close-knit, and I think that’s a good thing. As long as a community isn’t completely closed to new ideas, I don’t really have a huge problem with it being focused.

7/17/10 3:07 PM  
Blogger Karl Fisch said...

Michael Wacker - For me, there’s a difference between the “group think” you describe and the way I think people are using the term echo chamber. I’m not sure I can clearly delineate what that difference is, maybe it’s just because I hear it so often in the context of tech discussions, but it feels different. I’ll have to think some more about that. I think there is the danger of new ideas getting stuck in heads or blogs and not translating into action, basically what Seth Godin talks about when he says “you have to ship.” I guess our challenge is to make sure those ideas are considered in the rooms that “matter,” and that we force those folks to “ship.”

7/17/10 3:07 PM  
Blogger Karl Fisch said...

George Haines - Thanks for the dissent because, of course, it helps prove my point! Seriously, though, I have trouble understanding why you feel the need to debate positions you essentially agree with. If you’re extending the thinking about them, or pushing back against certain aspects that you don’t think are quite right, that’s great. But if you are disagreeing with something you agree with just because you’re frustrated that lots of people are agreeing, I don’t get that.

7/17/10 3:08 PM  
Blogger Karl Fisch said...

Matt Townsley - Thanks for your first paragraph. I think that was a big part of what I was trying to say, but you just said it much better. I think your second paragraph makes a good point as well, we’re only seeing one part of the bigger discussion online (Twitter, blogs, etc.). The folks that gravitate there are more inclined to generally agree on some things, which may seem to create an echo chamber. But I strongly agree that my PLN consists of face-to-face as well as virtual folks, and also includes books. If people are limiting themselves to virtual communities only, then they are missing a big part of what a PLN can be.

7/17/10 3:08 PM  
Blogger Karl Fisch said...

Michelle - While I like the idea of having people who push and stretch my thinking, and I certainly read/follow folks I often disagree with, I’m not so sure I like the idea of the word “balance.” Do you have a “balanced” view of civil rights? Or do you think there are rights that everyone has? Do you have a “balanced” view of educating all students? Or do you think that some should not? I guess my concern is that, much like echo chamber, I see educators (and others) use “balance” as an excuse not to go full bore. If you believe passionately in something, you think something is incredibly important for kids, why would we go for balance? This may just be one of my pet peeves, though, your mileage may vary.

7/17/10 3:09 PM  
Blogger Karl Fisch said...

Wm Chamberlain - Can you say more about “Twitter and commenting are not the best way to banter . . .” – I’m not sure what you’re trying to say there.

7/17/10 3:09 PM  
Blogger Karl Fisch said...

Richard - I guess I wonder why only 2 of 200 employees in your school are in a position to read this post and participate in the conversation. As Tim said, send it to them. Invite them in. Invite them to lunch. (If, of course, this is something you think is important enough to talk about.) My blog was started as an extension of our staff development efforts, it really was a way to bring my entire school into the conversation. What are some ways you could bring your folks into the conversation?

7/17/10 3:09 PM  
Blogger Karl Fisch said...

Tim - Yeah. Even the folks that I generally agree with most of the time I don’t agree with all of the time. That’s part of why I don’t get this idea of an echo chamber. I can’t think of any issue that’s been discussed on Twitter, blogs, etc. where there hasn’t been pushback from different perspectives.

7/17/10 3:10 PM  
Blogger Karl Fisch said...

MMWmS - I think we bridge the gap by sharing. We invite folks into the conversation – and ask them to invite us into their conversations (if we aren’t currently involved).

7/17/10 3:10 PM  
Blogger Wm Chamberlain said...

Karl, I believe serious dialogue requires a level of trust. We have a hard time accepting differing viewpoints, almost impossible when their is no relationships and those take time face to face.

The teasing, the playing of devil's advocate, questions said jokingly but with an edge that pushes discussions are really hard to do online.

Does this help?

7/17/10 4:40 PM  
Blogger teachernz said...

Use your imagination... picture yourself in an echo chamber. Look around... you're alone right?

Nuff said.

7/18/10 12:16 AM  
Blogger Michelle said...

Karl: then maybe "balance" wasn't the term I should have used. Not sure what the right one is exactly-- I simply meant that I look for people in my network with whom I have some things in common, but don't necessarily always share the same opinions. It's important to me to find people who don't always think along the same lines that I do. So, if I can find a better term, I guess that's more of what I meant.

And actually, some of my better discussions online and in person have been with people who vehemently disagree with me. In debating with them, I found that I either strengthened my initial position through that debate, or that I found a different perspective that I had overlooked.

7/18/10 3:07 PM  
Blogger Joe said...

The echo chamber is alive and well. Denying its existence doesn't make it any less real.

The “ed tech” echo chamber is only one of many echo chambers that are out there and that you can easily fall into (inside and out of both; education and technology)

The key thing is that you have to continuously be aware of it and focus on pushing past it. It is only human nature to associate with those who support your views and with whom you share a common experience. It is that common experience which is probably what fosters those shared common views.

The next innovations exist on the margins, on the edges far removed from where the vast majority of people’s views are. The danger of the echo chamber is that our ideas aren’t ever pushed to those edges where the next innovations will develop.

7/18/10 3:21 PM  
Blogger Kassissieh said...

Karl and Tim, the question of whether or not an echo chamber exists in PLNs is so tangential to the needs and concerns of 198/200 employees that I wouldn't think of inviting them into it. We do engage frequently on questions of teaching, learning, and technology. The most useful conversations center on students, curriculum, and pedagogy. The most effective interactions are face-to-face. We exchange web-based resources too, but precious few from the world of education technology.

How many principals and superintendents are in education technology PLNs? If they're not involved, then the conversation is happening on the margins of education policy reform.

7/18/10 6:40 PM  
Blogger Alissa Logan EDM310 Class Blog said...

Karl,
I feel like there is so much to learn, and I am constantly learning something new everyday. I do not feel like it is a bad thing to have someone believe or not believe like you do. We were not made to agree with everything another person said or did. That is why we are all different. I love reading and seeing other peoples opinion on things, because it makes me think why do they believe this and then I form my own opinion.

7/18/10 9:53 PM  
OpenID whatedsaid said...

I hear the 'echo chamber' mentioned a lot (maybe because of the echo!) The term suggests a bunch of people interacting with others who already think the way they do. So let me say this... There are educators joining in all the time who hadn't been involved before... in Twitter, in #edchat, in reading blogs and then in blogging themselves. Don't underestimate the power of all this to bring about change. There are always educators who are reading and following and listening and learning and thinking (some of them quietly). I know how much I have learnt and how my thinking has shifted in the past year.In part this is due to the voices in that echo chamber, reverberating in my head, as I apply their ideas critically and make sense of things for myself. So yes, I think there is a bit of an echo chamber out there... but it's not necessarily a bad thing!

7/19/10 3:43 AM  
Blogger Scott McLeod said...

What's the difference between an echo chamber and an affinity group (i.e., a group of people with shared interests)?

7/19/10 6:25 AM  
Blogger Brendan said...

Hmm very good discussion.

I do believe there is an echo chamber, but as someone said it exists when you let someone else do your thinking for you.
On the other hand I think it is very important to consciously bring people into your PLN who do think differently.
As Michael Fullan says (http://www.cdl.org/resource-library/articles/bonds_dependency.php)
1.Respect those you want to silence.
2.Move toward the danger in forming new alliances.

Or as my dad said, wisdom is being able to learn from those you think are stupid.

7/19/10 2:38 PM  
Blogger Karl Fisch said...

Wm Chamberlain - Yeah, that helps. And I agree that face-to-face is easier, and often better. But I disagree that it’s impossible to have serious conversations and effect change online. I’ve seen it happen reasonably often, and I also think we have to keep in mind that we’re still pretty early in learning how to do this well.

7/20/10 6:24 PM  
Blogger Karl Fisch said...

Michelle - Makes sense. Again, I think “balance” is just one of those pet-peeve things for me.

7/20/10 6:24 PM  
Blogger Karl Fisch said...

Joe - Well, obviously I disagree. I just don’t see any evidence of an echo chamber. People agreeing – even often agreeing - does not equal an echo chamber. Funny, I think a lot of people would argue that the folks on Twitter and blogs talking about all this are on the margins, yet they constantly get criticized for being part of an echo chamber. Not sure how that works.

7/20/10 6:25 PM  
Blogger Karl Fisch said...

Richard/Kassissieh - I was suggesting you invite them into the entire conversation(s), not just the echo chamber post. I’m curious as to why you think that’s not relevant for them. My guess is that we have a fundamental disagreement here. You think this conversation is about “EdTech,” whereas I think it’s about Ed(ucation). And all 200 of those employees surely should be interested in that.

7/20/10 6:25 PM  
Blogger Karl Fisch said...

whatedsaid - You bring up a great point. There are a lot of folks who are participating but are doing so more quietly. The ratio of folks who read this blog to those that comment is very high. The same is true on Twitter – many more folks are just following along (at least initially) before they get their “online legs.” In a way, it’s a lot like teaching. You often don’t see the end result of your efforts.

7/20/10 6:25 PM  
Blogger Karl Fisch said...

Scott McLeod - That’s what I was trying to get at above, I don’t think it’s bad to be part of a passionate group that is like-minded about a few things. I think the difference comes when you become exclusive of new ideas – and people. And if you begin parroting something that you either don’t believe, or haven’t really thought about, just to fit in. But I don’t really see that happening in my network(s).

7/20/10 6:25 PM  
Blogger Karl Fisch said...

Brendan - Well, I’m not sure I like your Dad’s use of the word “stupid,” but I generally agree with him. (And, yes, I’ve used the word stupid myself, but that doesn’t mean I think it’s a good choice.) Reminds me of an old motivational tape my father-in-law listened to a while back. The speaker was talking about learning from everyone he interacted with, and someone asked, “You mean you even learn from losers?” And the speaker replied, “Why, yes. I watch what they’re doing and then I don’t do it!” While simplistic, I think there’s some insight there.

7/20/10 6:25 PM  
Blogger JoLynne said...

August 13 will be my first day as a student teacher in a journalism classroom, and one of the lessons I play to teach to my students is the importance of seeking out other points of view. Thank you for the reminder that the purpose of doing so is to broaden one's viewpoint, to understand that most issues are nuanced, and to gain the ability to constructively debate with others and within your own mind.

7/26/10 10:47 AM  

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